Underwire FAQ This is the long-awaited alt.sewing Bra & Underwire FAQ. In it you will find addresses for bra patterns I have so far found with mention of mail order places that carry both underwire and other findings and fittings, with as much detail as I could muster. There is a long discussion of measurements and comparisons of underwires included, for those who want to use them. (There has been much discussion on alt.sewing about whether or not people like underwires, see a use for them, need them; so since I need them, I've taken a keen interest in what's what with underwires. Call me selfish.) There are now five files in all: Underwire FAQ: Wherein the author has completely nerded out on underwires. Contains some mail order lingerie supplies addresses. See Bra FAQ #3 for more. Bra FAQ #1: Bra Fit & Fashion Contains a discussion on people's complaints about bras and how to measure for proper fit, and other things in those areas. Bra FAQ #2: Bra making Tutorial Covers what I have learned about how to design and sew a bra, with contributions from the net. Bra FAQ #3: Places to look for lingerie & lingerie supplies Covers further the issues of finding the supplies for sewing lingerie, including mailorder bra patterns, lingerie supplies, and mailorder bra sources. It includes some addresses for swimwear, as well. (One so far.) Bra FAQ #4: Bra Fabric & Anatomy Covers some discussion on specifications for bra fabric like the RTW ones are made from, and some pointers to finding it (see Bra FAQ #3). There is also a stretch chart that people can make up themselves to check the stretch of fabric and elastics and a discussion in one section on not only lingerie fabric descriptions, but on my approximations on bra anatomy. I welcome anyone's comments and additions, but I don't have the facilities to maintain this as an automatic posting (I *might* be able to set this up). I hope people will find _and_make_ this a useful file. Babs Woods babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com, or babs@funhouse.com ========================== Underwire FAQ: Everything you always wanted to know about underwires, but refused to ask. I'll start with a quote of a mail-order RTW lingerie company's sizing chart: The Frederick's of Hollywood catalogue judges bra sizes thus: "Your bra size is made up of 2 parts, your Frame Size (32, 34, 36, etc.), and your Cup Size (A, B, C, D and so on). Step 1: Measure tightly around the body, directly under the bust, check mirror to make sure that tape is straight across back. * If measurement is an odd number, add 5". * If measurement is an even number, add 6". Write this measurement down. This is your *Frame Size*. Step 2: Measure directly across fullest part of the bust over the nipple area [at the physical bust point] with arms at sides and standing erect. Look in the mirror, is the tape straight? Write this second measurement down. Subtract your Frame Size from this second measurement. This difference is your *Cup Size*. If measurement difference is: Cup Size is: The same as your frame size.......................................AA up to 1" larger than frame size...................................A up to 2" larger than frame size...................................B up to 3" larger than frame size...................................C up to 4" larger than frame size...................................D up to 5" larger than frame size...................................DD up to 6" larger than frame size...................................F up to 7" larger than frame size...................................FF" ========================== As examples: Note that the bra underwires I need are full cup underwires. From my stock of recycled underwires, I have used (all from Sears and Minimizer type): 34DD is 4"- 4.25" deep, and 6.5" across. 36DD: about 4.5" deep, and 6.75" across 38DD: about 4.5" deep, and about 7.5Ó across. (Ouch!) If you plan to make your own bras, you may find the following, as I found. According to the above Frederick's of Hollywood catalogue bra size chart, I'd need: Chestband: 30+6=36 Bustline: 40-36=4 Cup size: 4=D This makes for a 36D, the underwire to which is 34DD also. (See Diane's comments under Sew Sassy Lingerie, below). My chest circumference seems to really be a size 32, but the cup size is the 34DD wire because one side is 1" to 1-1/4" bigger (a size). So the result is to wear a 32F, effectively, as far as I can see (depressing) by making a size 32 chestband and using the 34DD wire. *Gack*. =============================== [An interesting note in the message below about larger sizes:] From: kareng@iastate.edu (Karen R Glaesemann) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa (USA) Date: 24 Aug 1994 16:58:00 GMT Subject: Re: Bra sizes The formula for the bra size is as follows: Wear a comfortable bra and measure around your ribcage just below your bust. Add 5 inches. For example if you measure 29 inches, the BRA SIZE is 34. If the number is odd, round up to the next even number. Note: If your under-bust measurement is 33 inches or greater, add only 3 inches. For the CUP SIZE measure around the fullest point of the bust keeping the tape level without pulling tight. The difference between the bra size and the second measurement is the cup size. 0 inches difference is AA, 1 inch difference is A, 2 inches difference is B, 3 inches difference is C, 4 inches difference is D, 5 inches difference is DD, 6 inches difference is DDD. This is from the JCPenney catalog -- Karen R Glaesemann kareng@iastate.edu That's Mrs. Glaesemann to you. Then again I guess it depends on who you are! ========================== Note that Minimizer Bras are fitted thus: B cup will reduce by 1/2inch C cup will reduce by 3/4inch D cup will reduce by 1inch DD cup will reduce by 1-1/4inch Which means the amount they project off the body with the shape of the cups is reduced by these amounts. Some minimizer bras stow more of the breast under the arm than others, both by the way they're designed and because of the shape of the individual who wears this basic style of bra shape. They are supposed to work by flattening the breast, as I understand it, which can have the effect of sending it under your arm. ========================== Underwire: measure depth and width of wire for comparison note if it is half or full cup underwire (demi or full cup) (note that all of my underwire measurements are done by measuring outside, not using the inner edge as a reference, but the outer edge.) ========================== Addresses for lingerie supplies in general: [From my own research:] Banasch's "Supplies & equipment for the apparel, tailoring and 2810 Highland Ave. drycleaning trade." They carry items from buttons, Cincinnati, Ohio, 45212 to threads and flosses, to model forms, to display Local: 513-731-2040 racks. FAX: 513-731-2090 Toll Free Nationwide: 1-800-543-0355 Catalogue: free Hours: M-F 8:30-5:00 (EST) Keiffer's (see elsewhere) Nathan's Boning Co. Corset supplies 336 W. 37th Street NYC NY 10018 212-244-4781 Greenberg and Hammer, Inc. "Everything for the sewing room. Your 24 West 57th Street inquiries invited." Suppliers to costume New York City, New York, 10019 shops, tailors, schools, drycleaners... 212-246-2835 (Carry underwire for smaller cup sizes.) 2836 Minimum order: $10.00 (mail) 2467 I found them very slow with very small FAX: 212-765-8475 orders. AMEX, Visa, MC: $20.00 Minimum (phone) Toll Free: 1-800-955-5135 (Underwire sizes: 32, 34, 36, 38) Store hours: M-F 9-6 (EST) Sa 10-5 (EST Measurements of the underwires from Greenberg & Hammer (they have demi wires only, in metal, and by chest size, assume B-cup)): 32: 1-7/8" high by 4-1/2" wide 34: 2-1/8" high by 4-7/8" wide 36: 2-1/4" high by 5-1/4" wide 38: 2-1/2" high by 5-3/4" wide Mail Order Sources for Fabrics, Laces and Supplies (from the general sewing FAQs): The Unique Needle 539 Blossom Way Hayward, CA 94541 415-727-9130 Rumor has it she has a mailing list. Sweet Child of Mine or Sweet Child of Mine 139 East Fremont Avenue 3720 Miramesa Ct. Bldg 116 Sunnyvale, CA 94087 Santa Clara, CA 95051 408-720-8426 Hours: Mon, Tues, Wed from 11-4:30; Sat. 12:30-3:30 pm To: babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com (Babs Woods) From: hcs1@cornell.edu (Carol Straight) Subject: Re: stretch fabric mail order Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 08:42:12 -0400 .................... For mailorder for fine lingerie fabrics, patterns and notions try: Specialties Patricia A. Timms, Owner 4425 Cotton-Hanlon Road Montour Falls NY 14865 phone 607-594-2021 ========================== [I am especially enamoured of Sew Sassy Lingerie, below, since they seem to have the most complete line of bra supplies I've yet seen. -babs] ========================== Steinlauf & Stoller Sewing supplies. [Jobbers] 239 W. 39th Street Carry underwire: S, M, L (metal); S, L NYC NY 10018 (plastic) 212-869-0321 Sarah Lowengard (sarahl@panix.com) was nice enough to go over there one day last fall (Fall, 1993), since she lives in The City (pardon me, I was born there, though I don't live there now) and buy me one of every underwire they had. This is the resultant haul: Steinlauf & Stoller has: Demi, in plastic only: Small: 4-3/4" wide by 2-1/2" high Large: 6" wide by 3" high [Note that there is no medium S&S demi. Good substitutes would be: G&H: 36 Demi underwire S&S: Medium full underwire Sew Sassy: 923L Demi underwire -babs] And metal underwires: Small (yellow tips): 4-1/2" wide by 2-3/4" high Medium (blue tips): 5-3/8" wide by 2-1/2" high Large (white tips): 5-1/2" wide by 3-1/2" high Feb. 10, 2006: Sent to me by darkangela@verizon.net (thanks, Carole!), they sell underwires: Corset Supplies & Accessories Inc. 239 West 39th St. New York, N.Y. 10018 Business Hours: Monday - Friday 8AM-5PM EST Toll Free: 877-575-5720 Local: 212-575-5720 Fax: 212-575-5721 Email: CorsetStays@AOL.Com =============================== From: v070q5ug@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Anne-Marie Kinsley) Organization: University at Buffalo Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 16:56:00 GMT Subject: Bras, patterns, supplies Calico Cottage sells both nursing and a few non-nursing bras in a very large range of sizes (A 32-40, B 32-42, CD 32-44, EF 32-46, GH 34-46 depending on the model). Most of them cost under $20 if you buy two or more at the same time. P.O. Box 60, State Rd 726, Montvale VA 24122. (703) 947-5636. They recommend, for people who want to sew their own bras, a company called Sew Sassy Lingerie that sells patterns (but not for nursing bras) and supplies such as underwires, straps, hooks, etc. Their catalogue costs $2.00, credited towards your first order. Anne-Marie' [Babs:] Anne-Marie, I have to correct the address. It is now: Sew Sassy Lingerie 9009-C S. Memorial Parkway Huntsville, AL, 35802 Information: 1-205-883-1209 (Central Time) Orders: 1-800-677-2779 (1-800-67 SASSY) ($20 minimum and by credit card only) Hours: 10am-5pm M-F; 10am-4pm Sat ========================== Sew Sassy has the following underwire sizes: Demi underwires: 923S Small cup size (Red) (5" X 1-1/2") 923M Medium cup size (Ylw) (5-1/4" X 1-3/4") 923L Large cup size (Blue) (5-1/2" X 2-1/4") Large sizes: 921-1 44B/42C/40D/38DD (7" X 4-1/2") [See my Sears 36DD: 6.75" X 4.5") 921-2 46B/44C/42D/40DD (7-3/8" X 4-3/4") 921-3 48B/46C/44D/42DD (7-5/8" X 5") 921-4 48C/46D/44DD/42F (7-7/8" X 5-3/8") 921-5 48D/46DD/44F/42FF (8-1/8" X 5") 921-6 48DD/46F/44FF (8-3/4" X 5-3/8") 921-5 48F/46FF (9-1/4" X 5-3/4") 921-5 48FF (9-3/4" X 6") One piece underwires: 918 Small (5-3/8" wide X 2-3/4" high) 918 Medium (6-1/8" wide X 2-7/8" high) 918 Large (6-3/4" wide X 3" high) They also list: 920 Bra underwires: Available in sizes 32, 34, 36, 38, or 40. Use next size for C or D cups. [Assume B-cup size.] 32: 4-5/8" X 2-3/4" 34: 4-7/8" X 2-7/8" 36: 5-1/8" X 3-1/8" 38: 5-5/8" X 3-1/8" 40: 6" X 3-1/8" [March 24, 2003: Someone sent me an email query about sizes and I chose the Sew Sassy listing above to work with as follows: So, extrapolating downward: 24: 3-3/4" X 2-1/4" 26: 4" X 2-3/8" 28: 4-1/8" X 2-1/2" 30: 4-3/8" X 2-5/8" 32: 4-5/8" X 2-3/4" 30DD = 34B, 30DDD/F = 36B, 30FF/G = 38B 32DD = 38B, 32DDD/F = 40B, 32FF/G = 40C In the cases where there are sizes larger than B-cup, scale as appropriate. 30DD=34B may also equal 32D as one example.] Sew Sassy also lists: 921 Bra underwires: Available in sizes 40D, 42D, or 44D. So, from their chart above for large underwires, we'd have this chart for these: 44B/42C/ 40D /38DD 46B/44C/ 42D /40DD 48B/46C/ 44D /42DD This group meets 921-4 as the next one (46D), and is in fact 921-1 through 3. ============================ As for mail order and for bra patterns: Kieffer's Lingerie & Supplies P.O. Box 7500 Jersey City, New Jersey, 07307 Order Line: 1-201-798-2266 FAX: 1-201-798-5107 [As of Feb., 1994; I've discovered] Have 2-3 sales/yr and send out sale catalogues if you're on their list. Catalogue: $? They carry swimsuiting and findings, along with notions and lingerie stuff. (No underwire!) (All-cotton single-knit, satins, trims, elastics, various and sundry frippery, all-cotton interlocks....). Main catalogue carries some Kwik Sew and Sew Lovely patterns, including some bra patterns. (My favorite is an adaptation of KS 2211 (Underwire Unitard), just using the top to form the bra. I've recently decided to stop trying to hide the fact that I wear one, so the next adaptation will be to make it into a swimsuit/unitard that has a bra explicitly attached, showing the chestband on the outside, too. The chestband and cups could then be either pieced or color-block pieced, as supplies and whimsy mandate. I've also recently copied a RTW bra and will be designing it into this pattern as an alternate view.) Kwik Sew Pattern Co., Inc. * Mostly clothing patterns for the 3000 Washington Ave. North whole family, some crafts patterns. Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55411-1699 (I get my catalogue and order the patterns through Keiffer's.) 612-521-7651 FAX: 612-521-1662 Catalogue: $3.50 Kwik-Sew's 800 number: 1-800-328-3953 Stretch & Sew, Inc. Patterns, books, notions. 1165 Valley River Drive Some fabrics and videos, too. Eugene, Oregon, 97401 Some bra patterns. 503-686-9263 Catalogue: free Calico Cottage carries Leading Lady nursing bras, maternity patterns by Elizabeth Lee Designs, and a few other things. The only two lingerie supply things they seem to carry are closeouts on fabric, and bra back extenders (4pr of hooks extention) in several widths, along with a couple of other finding type items. They used to sell some lingerie and other fabrics, offering their own nursingwear fashions, which I seem to vaguely recall from long ago when my daughter was nursing. (- babs) From the Calico Cottage catalogue: Elizabeth Lee Designs P.O.Box 696 Bluebell, Utah, 84007 They seem to be the same company as "Babe, too!". Both companies make maternity and nursing patterns. =========================== Bra Commentary Section: Underwires (June 28, 1994) I had had a bunch of questions for Sew Sassy about their underwires so I called them. The person I spoke to, Diane, works part time on Sew Sassy's information line and she told me a lot about their underwire (under threat of lightning and other foul weather, as it's hurricane season there now). They have the above listing for the larger underwire sizes that really reads like a chart of equivalents, so I made up a chart of my own and asked her a few of them to see if I understood the pattern well enough. She had a few things to add, but this is what came of it. Q: "Is there a different scaling chart for the sizes below, say 38, in the larger sizes? A: Diane said, in the course of things: 1. The 921 40D, 42D, 44D, which match the 921-1 through 921-3 sized underwires are the plastic variety. These are soon to be replaced with the 921 line (1-4), which are currently all metal. This means the 921 group should all be metal real soon. 2. As the sizes increase past about the size 40s they get deeper faster than they widen in size. I don't have them now, they're due after the July 4 weekend, but I will measure them all and update this FAQ so everyone can know the dimensions. "They end up more oval than round" in these sizes, Diane says. 3. Given answer #2 above, Diane also says that for some patterns or for a particular fit (for some bathing suits for example, the neckline plunges pretty low), you may want to get out a pair of wire nippers and nip the ends down to the height needed for that garment. I've seen tip solution for this in other catalogues, but she says that tipping the resulting new end with nail polish has worked well for her, so itÕs what she uses. She also mentioned dipping the nipped tips in some latex paint to tip them might do well. 4. Sew Sassy sells a bustier pattern which Diane has made, and she points out that as in #3, some patterns are much more snug than others and you need a larger chest size underwire for a swimsuit than a bustier. She said she had to use a chest size two down in the bustier from what she had to use in the swimsuit underwire size. Well worth remembering. Diane also said that they are currently redoing the catalogue and one page is being devoted solely to scanned-in lifesized pictures of the underwires they carry. This cannot include the ones that are just too big for the 8.5 X 11 page size, but this is because everyone asks them about the sizes and this means that we can hold up our underwire to their picture and order the size pictured that matches it. They are actually considering the idea of a fold-out for the larger ones, but this was discussed possibly more in jest between Diane and I than perhaps being official as yet. =============================== Based on all that, plus talking with Diane at Sew Sassy, this is what the (cup size) chart should pretty much look like (modulo answer #2 above). : Bra Underwire Sizing Chart (all sizes approximate) Size == Equivalent(s) 32B == 30C == 28D == 26DD == 24DDD/F 34B == 32C == 30D == 28DD == 26DDD/F 36B == 34C == 32D == 30DD == 28DDD/F 38B == 36C == 34D == 32DD == 30DDD/F 40B == 38C == 36D == 34DD == 32DDD/F 42B == 40C == 38D == 36DD == 34DDD/F 44B == 42C == 40D == 38DD == 36DDD/F 46B == 44C == 42D == 40DD == 38DDD/F 48B == 46C == 44D == 42DD == 40DDD/F 48C == 46D == 44DD == 42F == 40FF/G 48D == 46DD == 44F == 42FF/G == 40GG/H 48DD == 46F == 44FF == 42GG/H == 40HH/I 48F == 46FF/G 48FF/G If we extend the chart even further backwards, we get (again, these are approximate, always check against measurements): 24A 26A == 24B 28A == 26B == 24C 30A == 28B == 26C == 24D 32A == 30B == 28C == 26D == 24DD 34A == 32B == 30C == 28D == 26DD ====================================== Below are all full cup underwires from my stock of recycled underwires, I have used from Sears and all Minimizer type): 34DD is 4"- 4.25" deep, and 6.5" across. 36DD: about 4.5" deep, and 6.75" across 38DD: about 4.5Ó deep, and about 7.5Ó across. (Ouch!) I have another, marked 38DD (Sears style # 75357, Minimizer): 4" X 6-1/4" (much more like a 34DD, or like a taller 40B wire from Sew Sassy (above). When I took out the wires, they turned out to be moulded plastic "wires", about 3/32" thick plastic X about 3/16" wide X 6-1/4" across and 4" deep. (There's a use for recycled polyester resin bottles!) They had the center front end marked: "FRONT 40D 38DD" in block letters on both sides of the center front. Alas, nothing useful like a product number or anything. This size compares best to the above 34DD, though, so this may have more to do with using them in a certain size pattern than a strict wire size. (I think I've bought mostly from Sears because of their now-defunct catalogue and because I was not finding the all-cotton broadcloth ones there (at last! cheap bras in something more comfortable I thought). I had finally found underwire bras that could be bought in quantity. It wasn't the best solution, but I've still learned a lot from Sears bras about design and fit.) I don't know if there's any difference in the standards about what size wires go into minimizer bras versus non-minimizers in the same size. It would be interesting if there is and to know the criteria used. A comparison of the available underwires in my stock of *samples* is as follows for dimensions and sizes listed above. G&H = Greenberg and Hammer; S&S = Steinlauf & Stoller; Sew Sassy Lingerie = SSL. Since I really could only compare between demi wires and some smaller full wires this list is necessarily incomplete, as below. (These all assume B-cup.): Chest size Grading 32: G&H: 32 Demi wire: 4-1/2" wide by 1-7/8" high (~1" lower than fulls) S&S: Small full wire: 4-1/2" X 2-3/4" SSL: 920 32B full wire: 4-5/8" X 2-3/4" 34: S&S: Small Demi wire: 4-3/4" X 2-1/2" G&H: 34 Demi wire: 4-7/8" wide by 2-1/8" high (3/8" lower than S&S S Demi) SSL: 923S (Demi): 5" X 1-1/2" (2-3/8" lower than 920 34B) SSL: 920 34B full wire: 4-7/8" X 2-7/8" 36: G&H: 36 Demi wire: 5-1/4" wide by 2-1/4" high (1/2" deeper than SSL 923M) SSL: 923M (Demi): 5-1/4" X 1-3/4" (1/8" wider than 920 36B full, 2-3/8" lower than 923M) SSL: 920 36B full wire: 5-1/8" X 3-1/8" (1/4" narrower, 5/8" deeper than S&S Med. full wire) S&S: Med. full wire: 5-3/8" wide by 2-1/2" high (1/8" wider, 1/4" deeper than G&H 36 Demi wire; 1/2" deeper than SSL 923M Demi) 38: S&S: Large full wire: 5-1/2" wide by 3-1/2" high SSL: 923L (Demi): 5-1/2" X 2-1/4" (1-1/4" lower than S&S L full) SSL: 920 38B full wire: 5-5/8" X 3-1/8" G&H: 38 Demi wire: 5-3/4" wide by 2-1/2" high (5/8" lower than SS 920 38B) 40: S&S: Large Demi wire: 6" wide by 3" high (1/4" wider, 1/2" deeper than G&H 38 Demi) SSL: 920 40B full wire: 6" X 3-1/8" (virtually the same as above) (I've figured out that cutting 921-1 down 1-1/8" on the side seam (more-oblique-than-straight-angle) end makes it 6-3/4" X 4". The 34DD I've been recycling is 4"- 4.25" deep, and 6.5" across., the 36DD is about 4.5" deep, and 6-3/4" across, so this result is closer to the 36DDs.) (I have since found that Sew Sassy is now carrying a metal 42B (921-0), which is the above size. I found out I really needed a DDD/F cup. This is not very pleasant, but now I know what to look for and what to design when I cannot find it. I also know why it's so hard to find in my frame size. The usual assumption is that as the cup size goes up so does the frame size, but it doesn't for most women. Most of us store a lot of fat in the chest which ends up as larger bust before our ribcage gets larger, so we need larger cups first but the manufacturers often aren't taking this into account.) The really shallow underwires tend towards a very flat arc, the deeper the underwire, the rounder the arc, until about size 38 or 40. At those sizes, manufacturers seem to slow down the widening in favor of depth, making the wires sort of moon-shaped but deepening until about the 48s. The Sew Sassy wires widen by about 1/4" between 44B/40D and 48D/44F, then jump 5/8Ó to the 48DD/46F, 1/2" to 48F and 48FF. Clearly, a new grading scale seems to be applied at that point. The depths then change 1/4" from 44B/40D to 46B/42D to 48B/44D; 3/8", 0", 3/8" between the next three sizes; then 3/8", then 1/4". The full wires go from a sort of moon-shape to more of a deep moon- shaped basin form. Demi wires are another story. There seem to be two basic shapes to them. One is the sort of half-cup form that can be used in open top push-up styles, in say a push-up bustier cup. The other is very shallow, almost a stay. I don't know the industry name for this one, for all I know they could be called something like "underwire stays" in the lingerie and lingerie supplies industries. The depth differences between demi wires and full size wires seem to be about 7/8" to 1", but the differences between demi wires seem to be 2-3/8", which seems to account for a difference between demi and stay wires. Depending on the actual dimensions required and on the shape of the wire, consider using a smaller or shallower wire as a demi. As always, check this against the real dimensions needed in each application, and against comfort and style. ================== [Kwik Sew 2211 calls for underwire, the bottom edge is a circle (not, say, oval, or oval ending in a straight line to a side seam). According to my measurements of the widths and depths, the wires should be about: XS: 5-1/4" X 3-1/8" S: 5-1/2" X 3-3/8" M: 6" X 3-5/8" L: 6-1/4" X 3-3/4" Underwire suggestions: XS: SSL 920 34B full 5-1/2" X 2-7/8" SSL 920 36B full 5-1/8" X 3-1/8" S: S&S Large Full 5-1/2" X 3-1/2" SSL 920 36B full 5-1/8" X 3-1/8" M: S&S Large Demi 6" X 3" SSL 920 40B full 6" X 3-1/8" L: (Nothing in my current stock even comes close, even nipped down.) -babs, 7/25/94 ] ====================================== An interesting sidelight to all this talk about underwires is the use of bra cups in swimsuits. Ann Person, the Founding President of Stretch&Sew, Inc., writes, in her book Sew Splashy, p.10 (reprinted without permission): "Bra Cups The addition of bra cups to a suit can define the bustline and give some support. Generally, cup size A is 32-34 (81-87cm), B is 34-36 (87-92cm), C is 36-38 (92-97cm), and D is 38-40 (97-102cm). The choice of bra cups and whether or not to use them is a personal one." Sew Splashy, by Ann Person (C) 1990, 1993 by Stretch&Sew, Inc. (No ISBN listed) Available at retail stores and through Stretch&Sew (above). ====================================== To: jfwhome!babs@uunet.uu.net Cc: babs@uunet.uu.net From: pirih@eskimo.com (Pirih) Subject: Re: another bra pattern query Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 17:28:04 -0700 Organization: The International House o' Cheese, Seattle WA USA Reply-To: pirih@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199407012002.QAA07422@jfwhome.funhouse.com> > Ok, you asked for it----> UNDERWIRE MEASURMENTS 1. 32A-Victoria's Secret, demi, pushup(?) 3-3/4 w, 2-5/8 d (this is a torture device, you know how champange glasses are supposedly shaped from Marie Antionette's breasts? This one is shaped for bullet boobs.) 2. 32A-VS , demi, Chancery lace bra 3-3/4 1-7/8 3. 32-multi-cup, Calvin Klein, demi cup 4-1/8 2-1/4 (the most comfortable one I own. stretchy mesh is perfect, the wire is padded and just the right length. Flannel on the hook is a bonus. I'm going to get another before they sell out.) 4. 34A, VS Taylor padded, demi(?) 4-3/8 2-5/8 (I may trade this in for a 32A, the fabric is very stretchy) 5. 34A, Fredricks of H. "extend-a-boob", demi(?) 4 3/8 1-7/8 6. 32A- strapless longline 4-1/4 2-1/8 7. 32B- converatble strap long line 5" 2-1/8 (ok it was only $5) I took the measurements from the inside of the wire. Wires seem to be about 1/8". Adjust the numbers if you need to. How's the research going? I had an idea to find wires at thrift stores. Even there they only had C-cups. Hit and miss.... -- ngai ============================== [My own research shows that two bras from K-Mart (whoever actually makes them is a mystery to me) are as follows for underwire sizes: Kmart bra, size 34D, Style 7543: 5-7/8" X 3-3/4" Kmart bra, size 36D, Style 7543: 6-3/8" X 3-7/8" These were each $5.99. -- babs] ============================== From: maguire@it.kth.se To: babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com (Babs Woods) In-Reply-To: babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com's message of 24 Jul 1994 11:01:27 -0400 Subject: "anyone building a better bra?" Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 18:52:09 +0200 Are you using the liquid ruber compound to re-tip the underwires. This material is used for insulating tools - it is sold in many hardware stores. So really good supply houses have it in lots of colors [so you can tell which are your tools and which belong to someone else]. The nice thing is that you could not only cover the tip, but coat the entire underwire - if you want to change a flat wire into a more rounded shape and it should alos resist twisting in the channel. This could give you some of the benefit of a Delrin resin ComfortFlex shapers (used in With*out*wires (TM) bras). Although presumeably the best would be to make a cast of your breasts in the shape you want them, then mold Delrin around memory wire (a nicrome based wire that restores its shape when warmed - your body heat should be enough) to make an underwire that fit exactly you. The great thing about memory wire is that it can get bent (such as when you pack things in a suitcase) and when warmed returns to its shape. You could also use the casting to make inserts such as are used in many firm cup swin suits. I saw a number of very nice blouses in Graz, Austria this spring that used lacing in the back to allow for a snug fit, but looked elegant. What about using the same loop back and hook method that is used for tuxedo bow ties - for the front closure. It would let you use a matching or contrasting fabric for the connection between the cups. [You could even use this with a pleated front - which would then let you use either close set cups or widely separated cups (as you have said "Always be thinking about not only your audience, but whether this garment is to be used as an outer garment."). This could be done in the bady-doll style (which was just recently in the fashon page of the NY Times). Best of success, Chip ============================== This is what I have so far. Again, I welcome people's additions and comments. Email me at: babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com, or babs@funhouse.com Happy Sewing! -babs woods